ToK question #1

Admin Number of posts : 11 Registration date : 2006-10-24

Comment on the quote:

What reason weaves, by passion is undone. (Alexander Pope, 1688-1744)

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2007-05-03

well I guess I interpret this quote as saying that passion undermines reason. I think that reason and passion can co-exist though, in certain contexts, how can you be passionate about something unreasonable to you? I think you can only be passionate if something makes sense to you and through reason you become passionate about that thing.

-Courtney

I (Lauren) think:

That passion does undermine reason. I think when someone becomes passionate about something, they become blind to reason and close their minds to rational thought. Passion is an emotion and emotions can exist without your reason's permission.

-Lauren

Number of posts : 7 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I can interpret this quote as meaning that all reason is undone when you are truly passionate about something - you will do anything to get what you're passionate about, even if it's unreasonable at times.

Number of posts : 8 Age : 33 Registration date : 2007-05-03

you guys are genious...i'm very impressed

but what courtney/lauren said makes sense...
anything your passionate about doesn't seem unreasonable to you
it may to others but that's just them being "too rational"

reason and emotion can co-exist but it depends on the extent to which you're willing to take that passion for a cause
i forget where i heard this but someone i knew had a friend who stopped using air travel because of it's effects on the environment
at the time he was in south korea...imagine getting home to north america from south korea NOT using air travel
his passion may not seem unreasonable to him but for us...it will
or maybe on his 3 month boat ride home, he will find it unreasonable

while in other cases...passion for a cause may not cause such an inconvenience and therefore can coexist

Number of posts : 7 Registration date : 2007-05-01

i agree with julia... people who are passionate about a cause can do very unreasonable things sometimes, all in the aim of achieving their goals... like if you are an extreme environmentalistic, you might do what might be considered unreasonable things, like walk for over an hour to get to your job. i guess this also leads us to the question of what can be considered unreasonable... it's all in the eyes of the beholder, i suppose. bc if you are an environmentalist, it can be seen as very reasonable (rational even ahah) to walk for an hour to get to your destination when you think about the effect you are having on the envt. (opportunity cost, anyone? - sorry my econ test is tmr ahah)

Number of posts : 13 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I really agree with what Melissa has just posted. Using her example of an environmentalist, there is always the popular example of someone protesting in a tree so that it doesn't get cut down- Summer from the OC anyone?

Being truly passionate about something can be very positive, but it can also get out of hand when you take it to a certain extent.

Number of posts : 3 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I agree with Melisa that when a person is extermely passionate about something, he/she will be unreasonable at some point. I once read an article about a barbie collector who had several hundred of barbies of limited editions. I thought it was very unreasonable. However, it was all that person had for passion.

Number of posts : 8 Age : 33 Registration date : 2007-05-03

are we assuming that anyone with passion does unreasonable things?

or maybe im just being naive and think that passion and rationality can go hand in hand

we're all giving extreme examples...
barbie collectors
summer and her tree
the guy who wouldn't fly home from south korea

maybe thats what passionate people are...extremists
but i dont believe that is true. i think that you can have passion for a cause without being unreasonable
there are always irrational people and many of them are passionate about something and they may be totally related but that is not always the case

iris is passionate about the environment and she doesnt wear potato bags as clothing or live in a tent (apart from the summer)
she is my exemplar...passion but not totally crazy

Number of posts : 7 Registration date : 2007-05-01

good example, georgia
i agree - in general, we tend to think of the passionate ppl as 'extremists' but we tend to forget there are ppl who are passionate but are not extremeists... iris.. Smile

Number of posts : 6 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I agree with the general ideas you guys are all talking about.
If you are really personated about particular things or events, it is likewise that you do not view your self as unreasonable. There are always examples associating with this idea. There are many times when we would think someone is weird for doing a particular thing while he/she would view it as normal.

Number of posts : 5 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I do agree with what Tori said. passion can become overwhelming and distort your logic. I can remember so many times that I became very emotional about something and in the context it made total sense to react how I did and now looking back, if you step back from the situation you see that your priorities are very skewed by feelings sometimes. But at the same time, your feelings aren't pointless I think that if you feel a passion for something and it feels right, you should do it, I mean if she didn't tie herself to that tree she wouldn't feel committed to her cause. If people didn't fulfill their passions then lots of political and social movements would end when it started to get tough and "illogical". You have to remember the society's logic at times can be very illogical. If your passion is to make a difference then your goal is to break common logic and thinking.
-Courtney

I (Lauren) think:

I agree with Tori also. I think passion can be taken too far, the drive of it can take over your concept of reality.
-Lauren

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I agree with Alexander Pope in that I believe that when you have a passion, you may become irrational. I know that sometimes you are so passionate about a cause that you will do irrational things, like protest by chaining yourself to a tree as shown in many movies and TV shows by 'hippies'. *lol* If you are truly passionate about something, you may do anything, possibly at your expense, for that cause.

Number of posts : 9 Registration date : 2007-05-03

Chumphrey wrote:: I do agree with what Tori said. passion can become overwhelming and distort your logic. I can remember so many times that I became very emotional about something and in the context it made total sense to react how I did and now looking back, if you step back from the situation you see that your priorities are very skewed by feelings sometimes. But at the same time, your feelings aren't pointless I think that if you feel a passion for something and it feels right, you should do it, I mean if she didn't tie herself to that tree she wouldn't feel committed to her cause. If people didn't fulfill their passions then lots of political and social movements would end when it started to get tough and "illogical". You have to remember the society's logic at times can be very illogical. If your passion is to make a difference then your goal is to break common logic and thinking.
-Courtney

I agree with Courtney in that sometimes you can become too emotional over something that matters to you. And then in retrospective, it seems silly.

Number of posts : 6 Registration date : 2007-05-03

i agree with all who believes that passion can undermine reason.

however, i believe that there can be two perspectives into this issue.

1. jusitifed reasons --> passion
take the example of some environmentalists, their passion to protect the environment is developed through justified scientifc reasons and proofs that what human beings are doing are harming the earth.

2. passion > reasons
u know how people say "Love is Blind"? i guess that's the same thing. when you fall in love with sth/sb or develop a passion, you dont necessarily need a reason for it at all. say no matter how poor that guy does at school or how mean he is to other girls, or even worse - to you, if you love him you DO (blindly). you just wont listen to what others are saying. being irrational i guess...?

Number of posts : 6 Registration date : 2007-05-03

I totally agree with Andrea!!! I love how you mentioned about "love is blind" in the previous post. From experience, I have seen people around me who were blinded by the power of love. They would choose to not accept anything that has a negative impact on themselves. In worst cases, they will be facing bigger troubles in the future. In some other cases, others might turn every that is negative into postive. Therefore, it is reasonable to say that passion--> reason or reason --> passion.